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Rane: Hello, my name's Rane.

Jo: And I'm Jo.

Rane: And this is the Flow Artist Podcast.

Jo: Every week we speak to inspiring movers, teachers, and thinkers about how they find.

Rane: Their flow and much, much more. Hey. Hey. How's it going?

Jo: I'm pretty good, thanks, Rane!

Rane: That's good. That's good. So what have you been up to lately?

Jo: Oh, thanks for asking. I just got back from visiting Esme, who is a past guest on this podcast, who now has her own wonderful podcast called beyond the Trip. She was talking about psychedelic therapy with us, and that's what she is also talking about on her podcast. We weren't doing psychedelic therapy, though. I went there to do my big read, which is reading out a printout of my manuscript of my aerial yoga book and making my on paper edits to get it ready to submit at the end of January. So it was really beautiful staying with Esme at our lovely beach house. And yeah, I just got back.

Rane: Nice. And congratulations on finishing your big read.

Jo: Thank you.

Rane: It does seem like a big milestone. And, yeah, handing the manuscript in pretty soon is going to be a big step as well. So. All very exciting stuff.

Jo: Yeah. Another cool thing I just did was I did a sound workshop with Alicia Leo of Home Song Love, another past podcast guest. So that was floating in the hammocks in our studio, and she did live vocals and the Plant Wave, which is a device that plays sounds from plants, which is amazing. Flute, singing, bowls, all of those beautiful instruments that we often hear in sound therapy. So, yeah, that was a really lovely experience.

Rane: It's like, I could see people leaving and stuff, and they seemed very, very Zen or very Zen. And can you talk about that plant music thing?

Jo: Yes. This is very cool. So it's called the Plant Wave, and if you've ever done your CPR update, it's got, like, little defibrillator pads, those little sticky pads that you stick on the plant leaves, and it reads the vibrations that the plant makes. It goes into a little app and it turns it into music. And when you water the plant or even stroke its leaves, the music changes. We tried on a few different plants in the studio, and they all had really different songs. Like, it was really interest. And I want one now.

Rane: Yeah, we're both keen to get one, but we kind of decided that it's probably not the best use of our finances at this point in time. So one day. One day we'll get one.

Jo: Oh, maybe Plant Wave can sponsor the podcast.

Rane: Yeah, great idea.

Jo: Yeah. Putting it out in the universe. So, Ryan, what have you been up to.

Rane: So I've been working on Sound Maid Scene as I have been for the last, I don't know, quite well over a year now and that's ticking along. It's still, you know, still got some way to go. I kind of launched an idea, another project I've been working on. It's called Toe Talk or. And it's to. I'll talk about this briefly because I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with it, but if anyone out there listening has any ideas or any feedback, I'd love to hear from you. It's essentially a wellness cheque in app where you can answer a few very simple questions on where you are, I guess emotionally, physically, productivity wise. And it'll track over time with nice little graphs, things like that, and possibly offer resources to help you out and maybe actionable insights. So areas that you might want to try doing different things. That sounds pretty vague, but it's an idea I put up. I'm not sure how I'm going to go with it, but yeah, it sort of fits in the wellness space and something I'm a little bit sort of interested in.

Jo: Yeah. So people who are listening might not know what SoundMadeSeen is. And if you have seen our podcast online, you've seen it in action because we use it to make the little videos that accompany each episode. Would you like to explain a bit more about SoundMadeSeen?

Rane: Yeah, sure. So SoundMadeSeen is a tool for podcasters and audio content creators to easily create video content from their audio. So you can upload your podcast episode, you can transcribe it, you can even analyse the audio to find out what clips, what parts of it might be most interesting to other people. And then you can use those clips to make little videos. And you know, it's got a simple sort of single scene video editor, it's actually got a timeline based video editor as well and it's got a bunch of like AI tools. So you can generate AI videos, you can generate AI images, all sorts of stuff. It can also create content, text content, so you can create blog posts, emails, rah rah, rah. I know a lot of people have, you know, differing opinions on AI and whether they want it to be, you know, use in their lives. There is a lot of, I don't know, they call it slop produced by AI out there these days. So I try and make it in a way that is it's more about easily empowering people to create content rather than just sort of spitting out a bunch of stuff. So. Yeah, and that's going well. I've got a bunch of users thanks to the appsumo programme I was on. But, yeah, still a long way to go with that. Yeah. And that's about that.

Jo: Well, congratulations on how far you've come with it and on making something that so many people use and appreciate. It's pretty cool seeing the global map of the world of people, like, using your product.

Rane: Yeah, it's pretty crazy. On analytics, you can sort of, like, look. And she's been a bit quiet over the holidays, but you can sort of see, you know, usually people scattered across the world using it. And that's quite. Quite cool.

Jo: Yeah. And people use it for all different things, like things we never even considered. Like, one person used it to make an audio version of their erotica fiction that they wrote. Oh, wow.

Rane: Yeah, cool. Actually, can you tell us about that? Was it Goblin?

Jo: Oh, yeah. Goblin Tools. So I was at a party last night talking to someone and they're autistic and they were telling me how they use it in a work context to kind of fit into a neurotypical work world. So they put in what they would send as an email, which is just super straight to the point, and in their words, blunt, and they hit the make this polite function and it adds in all of that professional filler stuff. So it's suddenly a polite email to send to people. Or like, they were saying how also one of their jobs is supporting other disabled people and they'll have a conversation on the phone, just write some really rough notes and then put it into Goblin Tools. And it's like they described it. It's like you're putting it into the pot and then you add other ingredients, which I guess are terms like make this a professional report with this, this and this. And it just turns their rough notes into a professional report that they can just file.

Rane: Yeah. That's amazing. I think that's so cool.

Jo: I think it's really cool as well, because it's. I feel like that is actually appropriate use of AI. Like, you don't want it to do the creative stuff because that's the fun stuff. You want it to do the boring stuff or the stuff that your brain doesn't do well so that you can focus on the good stuff.

Rane: Yeah. And I think that's the thing with AI. Like, it can't be truly creative. It can kind of remix or, you know, put things together in a slightly different way, which I think is awesome. But if you, like. I know with Trying to code something with AI, if you're trying to do something that's kind of novel in a sense, it really has trouble with it.

Jo: Another AI conversation I had last night was, it was in my Uber on the way home and I was talking to the Uber driver about writing my book and he was like, you know, you could save yourself lots of time if you use ChatGPT to help you. And it's like, I actually enjoy the creative process. Like, I don't want to hand that off to AI. Like, I'm honoured that I get to write a book and I actually want to write it myself.

Rane: Yeah, fair enough. And one last thing I did want to talk about. We were talking about it earlier, but I had been accepted into a startup accelerator programme and I was kind of excited about it, but we just had a talk about it, like, literally minutes ago. And I think at this point in my life, it's not really the best step for me. And basically a startup accelerator programme is. The idea behind this is that you meet a bunch of other people who are also wanting to start a business. They might have an idea, you might have an idea, and you put your minds together and you work towards getting investment from an investor. And essentially the issue with that is that it would mean for at least the next four years, assuming I'm successful in the programme, I'd be working very hard, it'd be very stressful, and I don't think this is exactly the path I want to follow.

Jo: It does seem like there's a lot of aspects of startup culture that are not exactly conducive to positive mental health and work life balance.

Rane: And I actually started the process thinking, oh, I'm probably not going to get in, so I'll apply and see how it goes. And then I sort of. I got through the first interview and then I got through that. In fact, the guy halfway through was like, I'm putting you through to the next round. And same thing happened in the second round. And I think I maybe got a little bit invested just because it felt like I was getting validation there.

Jo: You got swept up in their enthusiasm?

Rane: Yeah, yeah. Or just sort of, maybe. I thought it was a bit of a compliment.

Jo: Which it is.

Rane: Which it is. And I'm not trying to diminish that, but I. I don't think that is the best reason to do it. So, yeah, I think I'm glad we had a really good talk about this earlier today. All right, well, that's enough about me.

Jo: Oh, no, Ryan, we've got to talk about you for another hour.

Rane: Oh, and you.

Jo: And both of us. Yeah. All right, so we've got some questions from our lovely listeners, which we are so appreciative for. I'm going to start out with Kristen Mathieson's question for me. When is your book coming out? And I might just do all of them. And can you give us a brief overview? Will there be a launch? So, based on the timeline that Singing Dragon, my publisher, sent me, I think it's going to be about another year. I thought this timeline process was so interesting, so I'm going to share it. So I'm about to submit my manuscript to my editor. It looks like she'll have it for a month, then I'll get it back with her editorial suggestions. That length of time on the timeline is left blank, so we'll see how long it takes me to put those suggestions into action. Then it goes to the copy editor, so they cheque the spelling mistakes and stuff. There's so many people involved in the process of making a book. Someone else will make an index. If I need an index. There's a marketing team as well. It looks like it'll pop up on Amazon and other places where you can pre order a book about six months before it's released into the wild. I think I'm going to be working with the marketing team about, you know, other ways that I'll promote it. Also during the next year. I want to give thanks as well to the beautiful people at the Yoga For Good foundation because they gave me a grant to do all of the photos in the book, which was huge. Like, it really meant that I could fulfil my dreams for this project and just photograph all the images that I want to include. We've got a diverse crew of models, which is great runs in there as well. Some of you might know Maggie Turner Miguel from Instagram. She is 75 and she, like, really shares about practising yoga as an older person, even though she doesn't particularly need a lot of different accessible options. She, like, usually does some very physically advanced stuff online, but stronger than me. Yeah, yeah. I did get her to help me with some of the options for older people in the book. Wendy is also in the book and she's sharing some of the restorative options and, yeah, so all the photos are done. Daniel Lara Woolley was the photographer. She's also a yoga teacher and a friend, so super honoured to be working with her. She really helped to, like, bring my vision to life. Like, I feel like the photos she's created. It's like they're art, but they're also very functional at displaying what I needed to show with each pose. Sometimes there'll be a hand grip or something that needed to be captured really clearly, but everything is, like, beautifully framed and composed as well. So super excited to include that. I'm at the phase now where I just wrote too much. So my book that I pitched for was 55,000 words. Before I did my printout, it was about 85,000 words. My edit was helpful. I don't think I've managed to cut 30,000 words. We'll see when I put those changes into the computer. And that's probably gonna be one of my projects when I get it back from Singing Dragon with the edits.

Rane: I think that's a great problem to have, though. Like, better too many words than not enough.

Jo: Yeah, thanks. So I guess that's a bit of an overview of where I'm at so far.

Rane: Also, second book.

Jo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if people haven't caught what my book is about, it's called Eight Limbs of Aerial Adapting Practise for Accessibility, Neurodiversity and Physical Support. So basically, it is how the aerial hammock can be a tool to make the practises of yoga accessible for more people physically, but also mentally, because it's a very supportive option for our nervous systems. And it can be a way into practises like meditation and relaxation. For people who found doing those practises on the floor not helpful, not right for them, there'll be instructions for poses, but also instructions on how to really highlight the philosophy of yoga through your practise, which I think those two things, the philosophy and the accessibility, are two aspects of aerial yoga that don't always find their way into shorter teacher training courses, which I know a lot of aerial yoga teachers have just done a shorter course. So those are the aspects of the practise that I really want to highlight and to share.

Rane: Nice.

Jo: That was a. That's my goal with the book. And then will there be a launch? Yes, of course there will be a launch party.

Rane: Nice.

Jo: Cool. So let's flow on to some questions from Anne Swanston, who has written several wonderful yoga books. So honoured to talk to her on the podcast. What do you do to get in flow state? Do you have any things that you do run?

Rane: Oh, look, I don't necessarily have set things that I do to get into flow state, but I do think that when it comes to coding, you know, which is the main part of work that I Do I just find it easy to get into a flow state? Because I enjoy it. And especially if it's something a little bit challenging, you know, I can get really get in, into the zone. In fact, I think many years ago when I had an assessment, you know, quarterly assessment with the boss, he was. His feedback was like, sometimes I get too into the zone. So, yeah, I don't find. Like, obviously sometimes I. I'm less motivated and get a little bit distracted, but coding I really enjoy. I also, I've been writing a bit of documentation for what I'm doing lately and I find that kind of easy to get into the flow state as well. So this does not answer your question one little bit.

Jo: But that's all right, Ryan, because I've got some things that have really helped me.

Rane: Awesome.

Jo: And it is courtesy of Justine of the Flowcodes, who we spoke to.

Rane: Oh yeah.

Jo: So I am now an advocate of focus mixes.

Rane: Oh yeah.

Jo: So I listen to these mixes on YouTube. Jason Lewis Minder Men is my favourite channel. I actually subscribe to paid YouTube to get through this next phase of writing my book because the pop up ads in my flow mixes were just doing my head in and getting me out of the zone. So how it works is there's isochronic tones hidden in the music. So it's about getting certain brainwaves happening. There's ADHD specific mixes which are really great. There's some for sleep and for reducing anxiety and stuff, but I normally do the focus ones, but it's hidden in other types of electronic music. So if I want to listen to like liquid drum and bass or dubstep or techno or trap, there's like the. The isochronic tones are hidden in there. And because he's got so many mixes, I even change it up through the project because if I'm writing for four hours, that's a lot of dubstep. So sometimes I've got to swap between like some more chill and some more kind of driving, energising mixes. But it's helped me so much. It's cut out so much Internet stuff around time and just kind of helps me stay really motivated and creative. There's also special ones for creativity in there. So. Yes, shout out to Jason Lewis.

Rane: Nice. Actually, I did want to add something. I do also listen to music while I work. I mostly listen to Twitch streamers, DJing and sort of electronic stuff like that. So it's kind of a background constant noise. Also, we do not always, but we try and do a morning meditation and it's only a few minutes, but I do find that after we've done that, I'm kind of ready to go. So that's good.

Jo: Yeah. And then follow up question from Anne Swanston. How do you tap into creativity when feeling unmotivated? And I think you've done that a little bit. Ryan, you've already spoken about that. I also wanted to talk about my painting classes that I go to with my teacher, Richard Litigant, who we've also spoken to on the podcast. And Sumi e painting and Shoto, which is calligraphy. It's a very meditative art form. It's got a lot of Zen connections and it starts with mixing your ink in your ink stone with your ink stick, which is just a rhythmic, tactile kind of movement. And the ink smells really nice. And then a lot of the practise is like, literally copying strokes and trying to get them as close as you can to that original stroke. So you're very much in the moment with making these lines happen on the rice paper, which blurs with this brush, which can be quite unpredictable. And none of this sounds creative, like this is just a repetitive process and actually trying to copy something else as accurately as you can. But I find that the brain state that it helps you go into actually makes it really conducive to be creative. After that, or often in the class that Richard will do, we'll have like a copying exercise of some calligraphy or like a painting by an old master from a Chinese or a Japanese tradition, and then we'll do our own version at the end of the practise. So I find that doing something immersive and repetitive can be a really good way to pave the ground to then come up with new ideas, even though it seems like a completely opposite brain state.

Rane: Nice.

Jo: Swimming's good too.

Rane: Yeah, cool. We're about to do that later on today. It's 34 degrees, so, yes.

Jo: All right. This is a question from Claire Holloway. I know that you've both been advocates for social justice, practising ahimsa and satya in these times of genocide, racism and discrimination, how are you managing both personally and for your students amidst the current global crises that are playing out on our screens? And what are the key tools, yogic or otherwise, that you're leaning on in these times?

Rane: I guess it's been a little while since this question was asked. And as we talk now, there is promise of a ceasefire in Palestine. In Palestine, though that's not 100% certain yet, so. But things are looking, I guess, a little bit more positive on that front. There are other fronts that are not so good.

Jo: And also so much climate change emergency happening right now.

Rane: I guess the thing for me is that I guess it's almost like a stoic philosophy, but I guess there's. I think it's more productive to worry about things that you can change rather than things that are out of your control. By all means, I think it's important to speak up when you see injustice. And, you know, I believe in activism, but I think there's a point where it becomes less productive and perhaps not so good for your mental health to focus on these problems that are happening around the world. All I think we can do is try and do the best we can and try and influence the world, you know, be the change we want to be. Yeah, I think that's all I've got to say about that.

Jo: Yeah. And how I'm trying to put that into action for students. I really just try and hold space for whatever people are feeling when they show up on the mat. And if something really horrible has happened in the news today, I might just kind of acknowledge that we might be coming to class today with a lot of different feelings going on. It's maybe not realistic or helpful to expect people to be relaxed when they arrive. Hopefully there will be some time for some peace and calm during the practise, so that when we move back out into the world world, it will be from that place of a slightly more regulated nervous system. But I would never talk about inviting in bliss or anything that just is such a contradiction to how people might be feeling. It might just cause more internal struggle. And, I mean, that's kind of toxic positivity, isn't it? Like, expecting people to feel positive when there's something really horrible happening in the world. But also if we are operating at crisis state, that's not sustainable. And that's how we activist burnout. That's how we don't sleep at night. That's just a load that our systems are not built to tolerate. And so if I can give people some time to put down some of that load, even if just for the physical movement of the class, then I feel like that is a really powerful role that yoga can play in our lives when there's a lot happening in the world. Personally, I feel like online activism for me, especially on social media like Instagram and Facebook, is where I feel the most overwhelmed and the least effective. So what I'm trying to do is more direct political activism in our Area Cooper electorate. The Greens candidate is Tara Burnett. If she's successful, she'll be the first trans MP in Australia. So I definitely want to be a part of that. I fully respect everything that she stands for in terms of global policy, environmental policy, like first nations justice, and addressing racism here in Australia. So, yeah, I'll be helping with that campaign. When Celestial was running, we had her on the podcast and I did door knocking and I did letterboxing. So at least that feels like I am doing what I can to, like, help this person who I think will be a better representative, you know, have a position of power. Also, in terms of other activism, things that I've been doing is I've been calling MPs offices, and that's easy, but also you've got to be prepared because they will ask questions back. So sometimes when there's a particular political campaign going on, they'll just kind of have like a little list of notes so you can be prepared when someone asks you what you're calling for and why. And also sometimes MPs will do these posts where they'll be wanting to table a new bit of legislation to Parliament and they need a certain amount of signatures to make that happen. And some of those things that I've signed have been successful. So that has been very satisfying to be a small part in a bigger political change, because I feel like when it comes to global environmental and political issues, influencing the Australian government is much more powerful than trying to get someone on Facebook to change their mind. Like, it feels like a more effective use of my energy. And the other thing that I'm trying to do is have conversations with people, especially older people in my life, who might be getting their news from some very biassed sources that they aren't even aware of. And so especially talking about Palestine and stuff like that. Like, I've had a few conversations with older people who had no idea that Australia had weapons deals with Israel and, like, things like that. So I think that in person and kind of direct political activism, I don't even know what I'm doing is direct. Maybe it's indirect, but, yeah, that's what I'm focusing on. Stuff that's not on Facebook and Instagram.

Rane: Well said. And I might just go on a little tangent about. Because you spoke of toxic positivity. There was a post I saw on Facebook and it obviously triggered me. It was something about your. Oh, your boss.

Jo: Oh, yeah.

Rane: There's something about how your boss, like.

Jo: Your boss isn't responsible for your stress. You are.

Rane: Yeah. Yeah. And while I understand that, you know, you. You in some sense choose your own thoughts or, you know, you can react to a certain way, maybe due to how you've experienced life up to that point, if a boss is bullying or.

Jo: Harassing you, or you just have a workload that's unreasonable.

Rane: Yeah. Then. Then most certainly your boss can affect you.

Jo: Yeah. Yeah. Were they trying to sell you some kind of wellness product online?

Rane: I'm wondering if they were actually a boss.

Jo: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Rane: Yeah. Anyway, that was my little complaint, but other than that, I just want to say. Yeah, I totally agree with everything that you said earlier.

Jo: Thanks. Okay. Question from Divya Kohli. What are the biggest changes you've noticed in the holistic and wellbeing field from when you started the podcast to now?

Rane: That's a good question, I guess. And we've sort of talked about this before, but when we started, Accessible yoga wasn't really a thing. It was. I mean, I'm sure Jivana was doing that work, but it wasn't really.

Jo: He's been doing it for 30 years, apparently.

Rane: Yeah, yeah. But it wasn't as, I guess, popular online or we hadn't really learned about it until maybe a few years into the podcast, so. And I guess when we started, you know, I guess even my approach to yoga was like, you know, strong vinyasa.

Jo: You know, exerting yourself still with options for people. Yeah.

Rane: Oh, absolutely. But, yeah, that was more my approach and like, you know, doing lots of handstands and arm balances and that type of thing. And I feel like, you know, I still, like, I work out, I try to. I want to be strong and physically fit, but doing arm balances isn't so much a priority for me.

Jo: How many handstands did you do this morning? 1.

Rane: And not even very well.

Jo: The biggest change that I've noticed, which is probably opening my eyes and realising maybe how naive I've been about certain things in the yoga world, especially through Covid and some global events that happened at that time. I think I just kind of thought that all yoga teachers aim to live by the same philosophies. So we all thought basically the same about things. And I think I've kind of realised how much division there actually is between different groups within the greater yoga community. Like, and I guess this is a local thing in Melbourne, where we had a lot of lockdowns and different studios responded in really different ways. So that kind of opened my eyes to. Yeah, I guess, just. I don't know, I feel like some people preach a lot about compassion and didn't necessarily live that out in the way they were living their lives and running their businesses. And so that was a bit of a wake up.

Rane: And actually, I guess, you know, there is a long history of abuse in the yoga world and a lot of.

Jo: That has come out since we started the podcast.

Rane: Yeah, yeah, sorry. Not the most uplifting.

Jo: No, no. But you know, Satya Truth, like, if this stuff is a reality, then it's better to know about it and then we can work on changing it. The other change is how much more online the yoga world is now. So that can be really good, that can make practises more accessible to people. I feel like it's made learning directly from overseas teachers a much more financially accessible proposition. So that's cool. All right, so some questions from Kira. First one, have you got any travel plans coming up?

Rane: I think this is best for you to answer.

Jo: Yes, we have a very exciting Bali retreat coming up. Yeah, this is so new, this beautiful retreat centre. Floating Leaf reached out to us and when I looked at their website, it was like, oh, my gosh, this is like my dream kind of location to run a retreat like this. It's Balinese owned, which is really important because they do want to support local communities and they have a lot of local community support activities that they do from there and it's very sustainable. The aerial yoga space, which is their yoga space as well, is like in this beautiful bamboo pavilion with open walls. You can see the ocean, you can see the rice paddies. It's in a permaculture garden. They've got lots of amazing vegan options and just the interactions that I've had with the people who run it. Everyone is so lovely and they're so supportive and we've been able to tailor a retreat programme really based around my dream because as I kind of mentioned, I feel like creativity is another way into meditation. So we've put in a silversmithing workshop, there's a Balinese cooking workshop because I feel like cooking is meditation for people as well. Yeah. So the place is called Floating Leaf. Paid my deposit on Friday to reserve our space. It'll be August 5th to 11th, which encompasses my birthday. So we'll be there for my birthday. It'll be seven days and six nights of like, chill restorative yoga, aerial yoga, some cultural practises. It'll be like visiting some local temples. Even the welcome night dinner is like, local musicians and dancers and like a real welcome celebration. We'll get a chance to learn a Bit of Indonesian and about local culture from the retreat owner, who also runs sound healing workshops. Like, it's so many different things that I love and I'm really excited about it. So, yeah, I guess we'll put a link to people who want to know more with this episode in the show notes.

Rane: Absolutely.

Jo: Hey, it's Jo from the Future here. So we were getting a lot of feedback about our retreat that people really wanted to come, but they either couldn't fit it into their work schedule or their budget. So we've changed things, we've made it shorter, which means we can also make it cheaper. So now the retreat is going to run from August 5th till the 9th, so four nights and five days. If you get a early bird discount of $200, a single room is $2,700 per person. For that stay, a double room is 1,900. And of course that includes all of your meals, all of the wonderful activities and a silversmithing class, a cooking class. So much great stuff. You are also welcome to arrive at the retreat venue a day early or stay longer if you do want to still that extended experience. So, yeah, I just wanted to pop you in and let you know that we made that change. And please feel free to reach out to me if you do have any other questions about our retreat. What are your favourite travel hacks or things you take or do while travelling? For example, do you take a yoga mat or makaloo?

Rane: We used to take our travel mats, right?

Jo: Yeah, yeah. So I went to Korea recently. I went to South Korea with my best friend and her daughter and her sister and I took a yoga mat there. I actually left it in the hotel gym when I left because. No, no, I did it on purpose. It was like one of my festival mats. So it was like a pretty crappy, you know, cheap mat. And that was how I like made room in my bag to like bring home my Korean clothing, vintage purchases. So, yeah, I usually bring a mat. I do bring a Marcolou if I always bring it to festivals, because what the Marcalou is great for is if you're on a, like soft grassy slope listening to some music or if you're on your bed, it's like great on a softer surface because it's kind of got that wooden base. Sometimes I just bring a peanut, two balls in a sock and a theraband. Those are the things that I normally travel with. How about you, Ron?

Rane: Oh, gosh. It's actually been a while since I've travelled, other than to New Zealand. So I'M not sure I can answer this question very well. So that's my answer.

Jo: I mean, I'm normally the one who brings all of the yoga props.

Rane: I travel pretty light, to be honest.

Jo: Yeah. Oh, my God, I bring so much stuff. Sometimes there's some travel hula hoops in the mix as well.

Rane: All right, so, like, I'm such a dude. I'm just like. Just like, that's all I need. One pair of undies. Well, didn't need to know that.

Jo: Yeah, it was a joke, people. All right, questions from Justine. What is the most impactful lesson you've learned through the process of creating and producing a podcast? I have an answer. If you don't be prepared for the unexpected.

Rane: Yes.

Jo: So we have learned that there might be a guest that you're super excited to talk to, and it all feels like it's going to happen, and then unexpected circumstances arise and that episode may not ever come to life. So I have learned to not start sharing about something till it's done and dusted.

Rane: Nice.

Jo: So, yeah, that's one. Wait till the thing's done before you start sharing about it.

Rane: Actually, I do have an answer. Unless you've.

Jo: No, no, go for it.

Rane: And I've talked about this before, but don't forget to press record.

Jo: Important lesson.

Rane: It's only happened once.

Jo: Yeah.

Rane: Now, many years of running a podcast.

Jo: I just, like, glanced over.

Rane: Yeah, there's red light there, so it's cool.

Jo: Cool, cool. All right. You guys have had so many amazing guests on the show. Is there a dream guest you haven't hosted yet? I've got one.

Rane: Yeah.

Jo: Yeah. So the author, Valerie Kaur. So she wrote a beautiful book called See no Stranger, which is a memoir about her life. And she's a movement lawyer and so like a campaigner against racism and, I guess, violence worldwide. She has been someone who I've, like, really like. Her writing's just helped me so much, like, navigate around just the genocide and how do I go through my life? You know, what can I do? Like, how do I, you know, just do the normal things in my day, when all of that's happening? So a lot of her writing is about, like, expanding our hearts to encompass more than what we currently feel like is possible. So it's really, like, it's beautiful and it's powerful, but it's very action based as well. Like, it's not just airy, fairy, fluffy stuff. Like, she's got real steps to put this philosophy into action. I'd love to have her on the podcast. I Haven't reached out to her because she's just doing so many amazing things that feel more important right now. But she has a new book out that I haven't read yet, which is more Seek Wisdom in Practise, which I think would be great. So, yes, she's on my dream guest list. I'd love to speak to her. I think she's amazing and I feel like she's been really inspiring. Just a philosophy that can help when you just don't know what you can do.

Rane: Nice. And I guess there is someone I'd like to talk to. I can't even remember his last name right now, but he's the head trainer of GMB Fitness. I think he'd have a lot of interest.

Jo: Is that Charlo?

Rane: No, it's Ryan. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I noticed Conor O'Shea, who we had on the podcast ages ago, is actually a GMB trainer. I just saw him in a video, a GMB video. So shout out to Connor.

Jo: And then one last question from Justine. If you could go back in time and give yourselves one piece of advice before starting the podcast, what would it be?

Rane: Don't forget to press record.

Jo: Yeah, and I think my piece of advice to myself is to play the long game. I guess, like sometimes we've had little disappointments along the way when we've like put out an episode that we've been really proud of and maybe it hasn't had a lot of listens or often it's because you feel bad for the guest because you want to do really well for them. But I think the podcast is the reason why I have a publishing contract for my book. Like, I think the connections that I've been able to make and also just to kind of show that like, I guess I'm someone who can do a long term project and like finish it. Well, not that it was finishing the podcast, but like, yeah, and like it's such a ongoing slow thing that as you're in the middle of it, it might feel like you're not achieving or, you know, like, is anyone even listening? But over time it really has, like, helped connect us to an amazing community of people like teaching yoga and doing other things all around the world. And yeah, like, I think that it's definitely. There's lots of different ways you can measure success and if you are doing something like a podcast for your own personal growth and personal fulfilment and because you want to learn more, that's a short term goal that with every single episode I feel like I learn Something. And if you have kind of career aspirations or something, just don't put a time limit on that stuff and, you know, like, let it unfold, I guess.

Rane: Yep. Actually, just back to the question about. Yes. If anyone out there has any suggestions, we'd really like to hear them. Yeah. Anyone you think would be a great fit for the podcast, please reach out to us, let us know.

Jo: Yeah. So this is from Ambika, another wonderful past guest and friend of the podcast. Over the past 20 years, we've seen the yoga industry at its peak with multi million dollar yoga fashion companies, huge yoga festivals, promoting superfoods, oxygen, WTF? And the yoga influencers and all types of classes, some with alcohol, with the word yoga at the end, which somehow makes it yoga. We have also witnessed some incredibly positive yoga movements, including accessible yoga, body positive yoga, yoga in prisons, trauma sensitive yoga, the fall of the guru, and so much more. How would you like yoga to evolve in the next 20 years?

Rane: I actually think that although a lot of bad things have occurred in the history of yoga and the history of Western yoga in particular, I think in a way it's good that we know about these things.

Jo: Yeah. Because they were happening anyway.

Rane: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of people in the yoga world who do have compassion and want to live the world in a way that is beneficial to other human beings, is beneficial to their own lifestyle. So I think that in general the yoga world is moving in a positive direction. I think you hear these complaints about some forms of yoga being too physical and rah, rah, rah. And I think maybe that's just sort of, you know, part of your personal evolution as a human being. You're young, you're very invested in your physicality, you want to feel your body. And yoga's a way into that.

Jo: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you can start with a physical goal and then discover it as being a practise to work with your mind as well. And I do think that part of working with the mind is being present within your body. So if you're not even there, sometimes a practise that has more of a focus on the physical can be just the most accessible and realistic way in. I've definitely had experiences where I've tried to relax or meditate and just immediately checked out and thought about something else. And sometimes being physically exhausted is the state of mind that it's not like a sustainable long term practise. But that might be your first experience of being at total peace when you finally got rid of that energy that's been held in your body. I would like to see the yoga world or the yoga industry evolve or how would I like yoga itself to evolve in the next 20 years? I think that financial accessibility is a massive issue currently and just knowing how much the disparity between rich people and poor people is widening and how so many people can't even pay their rent at the moment. I think there's a lot of opportunity to make yoga more accessible for the community, but I don't think it should be about yoga teachers teaching for free because I don't think that that is accessible. That's not financially sustainable for yoga teachers unless they're already well off. I think that I'd love to see more local government funded programmes like, I'm lucky I teach in a get Active in Daravin class. I've been doing it for years that my local council funds and it means that the community can come for free. I still get paid and I have support with all the marketing aspects of that, which is really big for a community yoga class. Like often if you're teaching this free class, it's not just the hour that you're teaching, it's also the energy that you're putting into trying to reach groups in your community who aren't already on your mailing list because they don't already come to a yoga studio. I had a brief window where NDIS was accessible or people who were able to get into ndis, which was already not a given and already a massive challenge, were able to claim my classes, private sessions and group sessions under their plans. And it meant that I had people who would not normally be able to afford a private one on one session. Most of the people who were seeking them out with me had PTSD and it was a way that they could explore this practise that felt safe for them. It was just me and them, we could go at their own pace. And often that was just one session of that. And then they were like, oh, actually I think I'd be okay to join a group class. That's all gone. Anything. Yoga is not covered by the NDIS anymore. I've had invoices rejected just because they had my logo on it that said yoga, even though it was a trauma informed movement class. So it's super disappointing that that little window of financial accessibility has now gone. But it also just showed how if this was something that was treated as a mental health intervention or a physical health intervention and people were actually able to get subsidised classes or Maybe there were classes that were funded that people could attend. How many more people could get the benefits of this practise? And with that, how many more people from marginalised communities could go on to teach people within their communities? And I know, like accessible yoga holds space for this and has a lot of different financial options with their teacher trainings because I think it's one of those things. It's like there's lots of different things that need to happen for teachers and for students to make this an equitable practise.

Rane: Well said. And I guess one thing we have also discussed is we're kind of just a little bit curious where Yoga Australia has been in all of this process.

Jo: Yeah, so this was super obvious when yoga therapy and yoga in general was cut from ndis initially. And I found out about it through members from Yoga Australia sharing online that, like, this is on the horizon, we gotta mobilise, you've gotta sign this petition. And there was a bit of discussion about that in some Facebook groups and then Yoga Australia shared that more publicly to their mailing list. When I saw the response from the art therapy professional organisations when art therapy was the next thing to get, you know, cut from ndis or downgraded to just be a support activity, they were so mobilised, they were speaking to MPs. There were so much, it was just so much more organised. And I know that Yoga Australia has a lot of volunteers on their team and maybe these art therapy organisations have more paid stuff, but through their actions they changed it. So now there's like a six month monitorium where people can still get their art therapy sessions funded by nds. Just because those professional organisations and their members were so vocal, like that was in the media, it was such a different response to that same situation and I saw the power that that had.

Rane: So, and I don't know the numbers on this, but I'm sure the art therapy community is actually a lot smaller than the yoga community. So I don't know, I don't want to be too critical of Yoga Australia, but I'm just sort of wondering where they've been, what they've been doing, you know, are they just an organisation that takes your money every year?

Jo: Yeah, because I also wanted them to be more political, politically active as well. And I know other teachers, I know reached out to them about the genocide in Palestine. I saw Accessible Yoga's response and they really dug into how we can look to yoga philosophy to help us through these times. Like it's a reality for teachers that you will have People come into your class who might feel a whole lot of different ways about global situations and how do we hold space for that, how do we respond to this as human beings without, like putting our own emotional load on our students if we're really upset about something? So I felt like they didn't take a strong political stance and then they didn't take a strong professional stance. So I wanted more from them as a professional organisation.

Rane: Yeah. So on that note, do we have any concluding thoughts? Jo?

Jo: I guess when it comes to how would we like yoga to evolve in the next 20 years, hopefully what I'm doing with my book is my contribution as to, like, this is more of what I want to see in my community. This is what I have to share. So, yeah, like, I don't know, I guess that's my effort to make my contribution.

Rane: That's great. And you know, I've read a bit of your book and would just like to say that the way in which you write it is actually just very calming and very.

Jo: Oh, thanks.

Rane: Very pleasant and, yeah, very enjoyable to read. So, yeah, I think it's a great step in the right direction and I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of room for the yoga world to move in a really positive and maybe evidence based direction as well. So, yeah, that's all I've got to say about that.

Jo: Yeah. So when will people be hearing from us next? The first Monday of the month and we already have an episode ready to go.

Rane: Yes, yes. So look out for that one. All right. Oh, thank you so, so much for listening. We really appreciate you spending your precious time with us, Arohanui, Big, big love!